Healing From Emotional Abuse: The Music Industry is Toxic: with Brian Morelli

Healing From Emotional Abuse: The Music Industry is Toxic: with Brian Morelli
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Can you heal from abuse?  What do I do after leaving my narcissist? What does a healthy relationship look like? These concerns cross the minds of over 20 people every minute; over 28,800 people every day.  And the sad fact is, we still don’t talk about it enough.  Healing from Emotional Abuse isn’t a bandaid situation.  But it doesn’t have to take years either. The lives of millions of other survivors around the worlds have been impacted by their narcissist.  Yours doesn’t have to.  To show you how to live a free, confident and peaceful life, your host and Founder of the Healing From Emotional Abuse Philosophy, Marissa F. Cohen.

Marissa: Welcome back to Healing From Emotional Abuse. Today, I wanted to get into how music and the music industry is impacted by sexual assault. I know that over the course of the last couple years, actors came out and spoke out about their abuse, and singers and musicians, and also fans of bands who were being abused and assaulted by the bands. So today, I brought on an expert in the music industry, who is also my best friend, also a radio DJ for a major station, and also the producer of this podcast. The accolades just keep building. So, welcome to Healing From Emotional Abuse Brian Morelli. He’s a multi-instrumentalist, musician in the Jersey Shore music area. He’s probably been in about 300 bands since I’ve known him. He’s currently the music director for a major radio station, and has 15 years of music industry experience. Welcome Brian Morelli. I’m so happy you’re here today.

Brian: Thank you very much, It’s actually 248 bands.

Marissa: I just round up to the nearest 100.

Brian: Thanks for having me on. This is really cool.

Marissa: Of course, thank you for being here. And for everything that you do for me and for the podcast. You’re awesome. So, let’s chat music industry. So, over the course of the last couple years, a lot of bands have been called out for inappropriate sexual behavior. And that’s kind of where I want to start. And as a music industry expert, I would love your take on that.

Brian: Oh, sure. Yes, of course. I mean, it’s really nothing new in the music industry. Since the era of popular music had started, you had this perfect storm mix of abuse of influence, potentially substances, wealth, fame, and that is nothing new. That can arguably start with Jerry Lee Lewis and go up until now, in the past few years. And this is not to negate anything in the film industry. But the first outing of Harvey Weinstein from a lot of the survivors who have had experiences with him, that kind of started this snowball effect of the entertainment industry and people in the entertainment industry, who have abused their influence. So, it’s really nothing new specifically in music. And recently, specifically, very, very recently, maybe the most notable case would be Dr. Luke, the producer who infamously worked with Kesha. And the whole lawsuit that had followed that. And Marissa, I know you know all about that.

Marissa: Oh, yeah. No, I definitely followed that case. And Praying, Kesha’s single that she released about her abuse is by far one of my favorited songs. It’s just liked a power anthem for survivors.

Brian: Right? Yes. And so, to put it very broadly, the theme of power comes up in sexual assault, as you’ve defined many times before on here, and I’ll ask you to do that, again. But also that power in individuals in the music industry, not just in performers, but like producers like Dr. Luke and label executives, people who say, Hey, I could promise you all these things. Basically, ‘Harvey Weinstein’s’ of the music industry. Many of them have not dealt with the repercussions yet. And that’s still to come. But it’s happening, you know, the dominoes are falling.

Marissa: Thank goodness! Because that, like you mentioned, they just they have such a hold on these performers, and on the people, who are aspiring performers, that it’s so easy for them to take advantage and hold their career over their head. Because the producers and the agents and the managers, they have all the power. Dr. Luke literally had Kesha and tons of other pop artists, lives and livelihoods and careers in his hand. And would threaten to crush their careers and would threaten to end everything that they were building and working towards, if they didn’t do certain things for him. And I know with Kesha, she said that he drugged her and raped her. So, she really didn’t even have a memory of it. But that is abuse of power in its most infant form.

Brian: Yeah, I totally agree.

Marissa: So, thank you for bringing that up. I know that you and I have had conversations in the past, because you’re a big metal fan, and I think you know where I’m going with this.

Brian: Okay, yes.

Marissa: Do you remember the band, I think it was Decapitated?

Brian: Yeah, that is. That’s a very bizarre case. Because there are a lot of behind closed doors, legalities that I think went down with the band Decapitated, specifically. But the story was they’re doing a North American tour, they were on the West coast, they were in Washington State, I believe it was. They played a show, now they’re from overseas — they’re a Polish band. And when they were playing a show, the story was that they had invited one or two female fans onto their tour bus after the show. And the story goes, that the entire band took part in the rape of one of those fans. The entire band denied it. They were held in an American jail. And then just one day, they were let go, and they were brought back to Poland, they were freed, and all the charges were dropped. So, there’s a big chunk of the of the middle of that story that is missing. And that hasn’t been brought back. Something else from the rock and metal world, I do want to actually bring up. There is a kind of an umbrella sub genre in rock and metal right now. It’s somewhere between metal core and pop punk. It’s a little bit emo. And those are bands that their target demographic is basically teens and early 20s. And that is a very weird chemistry that I did want to bring up. Those are bands with young fans, and they know that they are being marketed to young fans. That’s also a style of music that isn’t terribly mainstream. So, when these bands are signed, and they get into the music industry, they’re in a really small, rather independent section of the music industry. Small record labels and stuff like that. So, with these bands that are smaller, but have some underground notoriety, they might have really active social media, but their record labels might not have the resources to hire a social media coordinator. So, the bands, the band members themselves, are policing their own social media accounts. So, when you have music that’s really emotive, and it connects with young people in a really visceral way, where it kind of brings out this emotional response through its lyrics, and you have a thinly veiled social media presence where any fan can say, Hey, I love your music and tend to one, a member is going to respond saying, Hey, thank you very much, a conversation can ensue from that. So, there have been bands that have been brought down, specifically over the past month, oddly enough, by fans who some were underaged, some weren’t. But they say that, hey, this member solicited pictures. This member sent pictures. This member engaged in lewd acts. And a lot of those members are dealing with the consequences now.

Marissa: I mean, I wish I could say I’m surprised. I’m just more disgusted. As an artist, right, The whole purpose of making music is all self expression. So, I guess I wonder if the being signed gives them like a power feeling? Or if they’re just gross individuals to begin with? If you know that your target market is young, why would you even engage in that way? And the answer is power and control. People don’t send lewd pictures, because they want people to see their genitalia. It’s a shock value thing. I mean, I’ve received my fair share of unsolicited pictures of guys. And it was never because that person was genuinely interested in me. It was because they wanted me to feel a certain way. And they knew that sending that picture would make me feel that way. So, I guess I just don’t understand why that behavior isn’t met with consequences. Like what happens to these bands that are caught doing that stuff.

Brian: Right now, we are in such an interesting era of accountability. Certainly a new era of accountability and people, people call it cancel culture, which certainly has its pitfalls. And I’m not denying that for a second. But when you’ve got fans who are coming forward with their stories, and you then have a legion of fans who are supporting that person and believe in that person’s story. It’s a very powerful thing. There was a band who is very underground, but in that scene, that metal core scene. I don’t think they’re very good personally, but they’re called Homewrecker. And a lot of allegations, and very serious allegations came against their lead singer. Came against, actually, a couple of members of that band. But most seriously toward their lead singer. Well, the entire band imploded. Not only did the band implode from all the heat that they got, just from their fans saying, how could you engage and stuff like this. But their record label is getting heat from the fans, the fans are turning to the record label saying, how could you have signed this band? Now, you could say the record label probably didn’t know. The record label might have known but still, that’s the representation of that label that, that band is acting like that. Not only that, that lead singer of that band, worked as a roadie for a much bigger metal band called Black Veil Brides. That band is getting heat from the fans, because they’re saying how could you still have had this guy employed as a roadie. Dude doesn’t even play a single note, he carries the cases. How could you employ and pay a roadie who does stuff like that? Cancel culture is a very powerful thing. At times that power can be misguided. That’s a conversation for another time. I think that we’re seeing a dawning of people believing the survivors, as opposed to taking the side of the “heroes.”

Marissa: And I think that that’s so important. I’m really happy about that. And I’m happy that you’ve said it. I am thrilled, every time I go on Twitter, and look up #speakingout for the wrestling industry. And #metoo. Every time I look up those hashtags. Now, it’s not met with anger and victim blaming. I mean, it still is sometimes, but the vast majority of people are supporting and empowering and advocating for survivors. I can’t speak on this particular topic, because I’m not in the music industry. But I’ve been doing a lot of research in the wrestling industry. It’s really quite beautiful that people are posting for other people that are afraid to come forward. You know, I have a friend who was impacted by speak out for the wrestling world. And that person is afraid to speak out for fear of retaliation. So a ton of their friends posted for them. And I think that, that camaraderie and that advocacy is so powerful. And back to the topic at hand, I’m so happy with this cancelled culture, Because I tend to side with survivors and champions if they speak their truth, I know that that’s not easy to do. And so, I’m more apt to believe them, than side with an abuser. Does that make sense?

Brian: Yes. Oh, yeah, of course, there are still some gray areas and many stories that may have come up and may have disappeared mysteriously like that band Decapitated from before. One that comes to mind, and this happened a few years ago. This was one of the stories that kind of directly followed the Harvey Weinstein, the Kevin Spacey. this was during that timeline of events. The hard rock vocalist Maynard James Keenan, who’s from the band Tool, and A Perfect Circle, and a few others. A very big front man, widely known in that world and in that universe, and there was one very, very detailed story of backstage abuse and sexual assault that he had committed against her. And I think one other story came out, it was so detailed, I never forgot it. And he was quick to come out and deny that and say, almost kind of laugh and shrug it off. Saying this is a pathetic money grab attempt. And then it all disappeared. And that’s not the only occurrence that happens, an uncounted amount of times in the music industry, and I never forgot that person’s story. And it might be completely unsubstantiated. But I never forgot it. So now when I listen to Tool, and I’m going to get to this in a second, because I do still listen to them. I do still listen to him. That is always in the back of my mind And I don’t know how legitimate it is.

Marissa: So, yes, to everything. Yes. It’s really that I think the fact that you heard the story, right, and then it disappeared in thin air is very telling, because that happens so much when people that are famous and with money are accused, right? Money Talks. And it’s easier to pay someone off in silence them than it is to face reality go to trial. So, a lot of people will settle, either settle outside of court or try and pay them off. The accusers-off to stop telling their story or some of them are threatened with legal action or threatened that their lives or their families will be in danger. I mean, it’s really disgusting, what happens when people speak out. And like we said before, generally people were always more apt to believe the “hero” or the “lead singer” or “the drummer” or, and that’s why the stories just go away. And everyone just automatically assumes they were lying It’s easy to write it off as a false report, which is why rape culture and victim blaming are so rampant.

Brian: Yes, of course. And it’s rampant in the, in the music industry, certainly, you know, you have this sphere of influence, you have amazing technology. I mean, mind blowing technology that beats fan mail from 40 years ago. You can message somebody on Twitter or Instagram, some platform even TikTok now. And if you get that split second of that hero recognized what you said, that’s almost an addictive feeling for fans. And people who can want to interact, seek out more interactions with people with this influence. I think it kind of comes down to and I hate to arrive at this finish line. But I think it kind of comes down to people in show business and performers have to hold themselves accountable. Sounds easy. And it should be that easy. That’s not without its pitfalls.

Marissa: I think we live in a very deny, deny culture, right? We’re innocent until proven guilty. And all that jazz. I mean, I was taught growing up, if I’m in a car accident, never take responsibility for it. And I think that that is kind of ingrained in us, right? We never want to be at fault for anything. We never want to be held accountable for anything, because it’ll just get us into trouble. But we do need to check ourselves. And we need to hold ourselves accountable for our actions. And we need to be held accountable by friends and family. And so how do we change that culture? Like how, what can we do to make it so that people hold each other accountable? I think that’s like, the key to fixing rape culture.

Brian: Yeah, it should be as straightforward as lead by example. There are other musicians, there are other performers in show business who do just as much calling out as some of these people on the receiving end. I mean, it’s not all bad. It’s not all evil, there are good people. And there are responsible people in show business. And we would probably just have to see more public action, more statements. Listen, people aren’t afraid of record labels anymore, because record labels don’t hold the key to success anymore. They used to. And we’re so brainwashed from that mindset that is decades old. But we don’t, nobody needs record labels anymore. So, a record label might have some sort of financial leverage on, “Hey, if you speak out, there are consequences.” But it’s all survivable, the implications, the consequences, they are not as great as the moral consequences that could come from not reporting something. Not observing something and being vocal about it.

Marissa: I think more people need to be made an example of. I think that once we start actually holding people accountable, and giving like reasonable consequences and jail sentences for people who do sexually assault. the FBI qualifies rape as the second most violent crime behind homicide. So why isn’t it given the same clout? Right? When you say homicide, or you hear the word homicide, you get chills? When you say or hear the word rape. It’s almost met with like, a shrug of disbelief, right? Like, that doesn’t really happen. And we know it does. You know, it’s now more common to talk about than ever before, but it’s still not worth coming forward or seeking some sort of legal action about because it’s still not taken seriously in that domain. So, I want to shift topics. I know that in the last couple years, a lot of artists have released songs about women empowerment or sexual assault and how not to do it. Like Keith Urban’s song, Female, is probably one of the best in my opinion, not only because I’m a big Keith Urban fan, but he also is a big advocate for domestic violence. It’s like one of his main causes. Him and his wife, Nicole Kidman are big advocates for domestic violence survivors. But there are other artists that are putting out beautiful songs to help empower people to speak out and break their silence. So, do you think thing that will shift any mindsets, or do you think that’ll make a difference?

Brian: Artistry is so subjective. So, it’s a matter of what somebody is inspired by, in the moment to write a song like that. In artists like Keith Urban, he’s brave enough to do that. And he would do well. And he would sell it well. Not sell being like crude financially mean that he would sell that subject matter. Well, he’s believable.

Marissa: And he’s genuine.

Brian: Yeah, totally. That is a big challenge for artists to be genuine about a field that maybe they don’t have personal experience in. It takes trying and it takes wanting to do that. Action in artistry is always welcome. It’s always, I think, greeted with some sort of praise. Risk taking is there. Might go against some commercial goals. But I kind of don’t care about that.

Marissa: Right? You I think you’re the one that told me that Praying was submitted for a single on the Billboard, whatever chart, and it didn’t even break the top 30. But Praying is such a power song. And I mean, look at Till It Happens To You by Lady Gaga, I don’t even think it broke top 100. But that song, God, it’s so raw and honest and beautiful.

Brian: What’s a bit problematic from there would be radio airplay. A lot of the charts are dictated by radio plays, and that is left up to radio programmers and a lot of them think about music very differently than the artists world. It’s very objective. It’s an objective way of looking at music, which can be infuriating. There’s a way to finesse that though. But somebody who programs let’s just say a pop station, they want the most up tempo, upbeat songs to keep their listeners engaged. So, when a pop artist like Kesha comes out with this inchworm — slow ballad, as powerful as Praying is as a song, you’ve got a legion of radio program is going oh my god. And from the radio side, I get why they’re saying that. I’m in the country world. And when we got Female by Keith Urban, I have to say we said the same thing We’re like, Oh, geez. But do you want your station to stand for that? Some programmers do some don’t. And there introduces a new topic that could be problematic of silence

Marissa: 100% And by not getting the songs out to the people that need to hear them, you’re doing a disservice to survivors, to the community to the artists. And I understand on one hand, a programmer’s perspective. Yes, the whole purpose of a radio station and making it profitable is to provide what the constituents and what the listeners want. So, you know, when you’re driving a car, you don’t want to hear a power ballad that’s going to make you cry, you want to hear party rocking in the house, you’re like, I understand that. But the part that you said where it, it’s like silencing people. It’s exactly the opposite of what all of these current movements, and all of these artists are trying to do.

Brian: Yeah, you’re right. The music industry, and specifically, the radio industry is very mechanical in that sort of way with the music that comes out. And for a music radio station, whether it be Top 40, or Rock, or whatever the format is. On music radio station, the only product that they have is the music. That is the product. So, a lot of programmers look at that and say why take a chance on that. You’ll see the potential of somebody, maybe not liking a song and tuning out. It’s a very crude way of doing business. And the victims in that case, are the survivors who are being under represented.

Marissa: You’re totally right. You know, the people who are really kind of getting the short end of the stick are the survivors that need to hear those songs.

Brian: It’s unfortunate just how many artists over the years, over the entire era of 20th and 21st century popular music, how many artists have been problematic and how survivors don’t have representation in music. It’s easier to think of problematic artists.  An R&B singer, a legendary R&B singer Sam Cooke, people don’t remember how big of a piece of shit he was.

Marissa: Really?

Brian: Yeah. A history of sexual assault. Instances of rape that may have gone undocumented. He was killed in a shooting. He was at a motel with a young female fan. And he was being forceful, sexually, and then ultimately, it turned into an attempted rape. And the manager of the motel intervened with a firearm, and that’s how he ultimately died — Sam Cooke. But people don’t remember that. A lot of people just remember the music. It’s a very rose-colored glasses sort of industry. And there are celebrities outside of the music industry right now, where their past isn’t really being addressed as problematic. Arnold Schwarzenegger has a very tattered history. Many instances of sexual assault throughout the years. A horribly abusive marriage and now he’s one of the biggest personalities on TikTok. Gen. Z doesn’t remember that. That’s 20 years before Gen. Z, and they’re not doing the research. So, I think we really need to examine who we follow.

Marissa: Right and make those histories stick. Clearly. I mean, I was aware of a bunch of the horrible things that Arnold Schwarzenegger did. The problem was he was never held accountable. It came up, it disappeared. But if we do the right thing as a society, and hold these people who are doing horrible, horrible things accountable, then you continue to hear about it. Like you will never not know that Hitler was a bad person. I don’t care if you’re born in the year 3000. It’ll still be known that Hitler was a bad person. Why are we not defaming these people’s characters enough that it sticks? We know that Jeffrey Epstein’s a bad person? Right? There’s a documentary about it, there are legal documents about it He was a horrible person. But I bet you in 10 years, people don’t remember that. I’m sure they won’t even remember him. But his crimes and the horrible things he did, should be remembered. Because when we forget history, it’s doomed to repeat itself. Right? If we don’t remember history, it’s doomed to repeat itself. So, by not talking about it and not making a huge stink, that sticks, that’s when we’re doing a disservice to the younger generations like Gen. Z, who don’t know the horrible things that Arnold Schwarzenegger did. Or Sam Cooke. That needs to be like, legendary status of these are bad people don’t look up to them.

Brian: Yeah, yes, you’re right. There’s an interesting section of this conversation that can turn into how much of it do we tolerate? Can we separate art from artists? Sometimes you can and that’s what I wanted to bring up. I’ll reintroduce Maynard James Keenan and Tool. I can still listen to them But I’ll always think about one person’s story. And it might not even be real, I don’t know. But I’ve got a tough time listening to Sam Cooke now. I know that that’s real. Stand-up comedy is its own world. And you can have eight separate episodes about that. The most recent being Chris Delia, notably unfunny, and the big fallout in the past couple of weeks of his social media interactions with underage fans. So, I think it can become a less of a conversation about the severity of the crime, and just the fact that it was committed.

Marissa: Right. I love that. And I think that you and I should do a couple more episodes scattered about comedians and about separating art from artists. Because you and Mike Sellari, who came on a while ago, to talk about movies about narcissism, are really good at that, you can still listen to those people and recognize they were bad people but also like, remember their past but still listen to their music. And enjoy their music, or their comedy, or whatever. I am not the person that can do that. I was a huge Kevin Spacey fan and now I am a huge kill Kevin Spacey fan. And I mean that along with various others. I have a very difficult time separating the art from the artist, because I think that your art is a self-expression of who you are. So, when Louie C.K. was joking about jerking off in front of people, like his staff, he was actually doing it. That wasn’t a separation of art and artist. But that is a separate conversation for a separate podcast episode that we can and should do if you want to.

Brian: Yeah, of course, I mean that that’s an easy power move. You got to assume and I will safely assume that Louie C.K. probably went backstage after that set and said to a friend, “Hey, I literally just told my truth to everybody and I will never suffer any consequences.” There’s arrogance in that and there’s arrogance, obviously in power and in show business as well. Separating art from artists is difficult. It is so difficult. It kind of depends on a bunch of different variables. It depends on what the art is. It also depends on the severity of the crime. There are still people who can watch The Cosby Show reruns. I don’t get it. That escapes me completely, because the allegations against the person are so serious, that how does that not infiltrate your mind? For some people, it doesn’t. And okay. I have a tough time I mean; I can still watch reruns of Seinfeld and a mid 90s Jerry Seinfeld was involved in a consensual relationship with a 17-year-old. And that’s the thing. When you have to use an age of consent law to justify your actions. The issue is already outside of that justification.

Marissa: Right. I mean, listen, I’m not trying to judge anybody else’s lifestyle. You like who you like, but if you’re in your 30s, or 40s, and you’re interested in a teenage person, I mean, that, to me, seems like an error. Like a computer error, right? It’s like a glitch. Why are you attracted to somebody that is so much younger than you. And fine age of consent laws, those were created for marriages. Back in the day, like, I don’t want this to sound shitty, but like, I’ll never understand it. I had friends in high school when we were 16 and 17 that were dating 26- and 28-year-old. And I, to this day, don’t understand that because I’m 29 right now. And I could never find somebody who’s that young, sexually attractive. Not only are we not on the same maturity plane, and I know this is anecdotal evidence, but you’re in a different life. You know, aeons ahead of just in wisdom, that person. I look at 16- and 17-year old’s, his children, you know. They still have so much growing to do and learning to do and I could never imagine myself being in a sexual relationship with them in any way.

Brian: It’s just an educated guess, really. But I hate to bring up potentially the unfair assumption into this, but I think it might not even be an issue of physical attraction to a younger person. I think it’s more of a physical attraction to the influence. It’s more of a power trip. It’s an influence trip that you can get over somebody who’s younger. And it’s getting off on ageism, and that is weird. And that is gross. And that is murky.

Marissa: Right. I agree. And going back to separation of art and artist. I didn’t know that about Jerry Seinfeld. I’ve also never really been a fan of Seinfeld the show. And I get flack for that constantly. But a point of contention between Larry and I, for anyone who doesn’t know Larry’s my boyfriend, and he’s a big Derrick Rose fan. And he’s, you know, a big Kobe fan and those two people were also accused. He loves movies, like I do, but he like you, separates the art from the artist. And so, Ben Affleck Big point of contention for us because Ben Affleck is in so many amazing movies that I can’t in good faith watch because he sexually assaulted a news anchor. He knew about Harvey Weinstein and didn’t speak up or say anything. And he openly admitted that he said, yeah, we all knew. It was like a boy’s club and for me, that’s disgusting. You know, if you know that he is hurting so many people and you do nothing about it. You are equally as accountable. You are equally as guilty.

Brian: Yeah. Yeah, of course. In the film industry, there is a decade’s old mentality of Hollywood is untouchable. The biggest people there are untouchable. Harvey Weinstein can break you if he really wanted to. He can Absolutely. He can erase your career from existence make it like you never even were born. And people in Hollywood were so afraid of that. And I’m sure there are still big individuals that people are still afraid of. There’s the fear of the consequences of outing somebody. There’s also this whole arrogance of, Yeah, we’re an exclusive club, and you can’t touch us. But again, I truly believe we’re in a new era of accountability. And I am so optimistic about that. I again, will reiterate that I think cancel culture needs a bit of a tweaking, but the hearts are in the right place. And I truly believe we’re going to see famous people benefit more from showcasing a moral compass than not.

Marissa: I agree, and I truly hope so. I love everything that you’re saying, I want cancel culture to be beneficial and productive. And I want people who are bad people — who hurt people on purpose, to be held accountable for their actions. Like, I don’t think that’s such a big ask. If somebody’s murder somebody, they’re held accountable. If somebody, robs somebody, they’re held accountable. If somebody breaks into your home, they’re held accountable. So why is somebody forcing themselves on a person taking away their control, violating their personal space, psychologically damaging people. Like, why doesn’t that hold the same weight as property and as murder? I mean, by doing such horrible acts, you’re changing a person. You’re literally retraining their brain to believe that they are not good enough. That they are objects. That they are unworthy. Like, that is so powerful, but that’s less investigated, and has less clout than somebody breaking into my house and stealing my TV. Why? You know, and I hope that the world is changing And I see the world starting to change on Twitter and I, mentioned this in several podcasts, but I am so proud of Gen. Z, and the younger generations, because they are moving mountains, right now, faster than any other generation. They are the trolls. They are the people that are the most accepting and tolerant and loving and doing everything they can to create the world that I wanted to grow up in, and didn’t have the know-how, or the resources. I’m like, honored to be advocating for them, and to be alive in the time that they are doing such great work. And so, I just want to say thank you, to everybody who’s using the internet responsibly and using it to promote beautiful societal changes. Thank you. That is so important. And it’s impactful. And whatever backlash you get, no, it comes from a place of fear, and loss of control. And that you guys are doing the right thing and on the right path. And I am here to support anything and everything that you guys are doing and saying. And you have a good chunk of millennials that will stand with you.

Brian: I like to think that we’re hopefully the last passive generation, us millennials. And I wish I could frame everything you just said Gen. Z has it going on. Really, Gen. Z. They are the generation that is actually idolizing a higher moral compass and they are the ones pushing for personal accountability. You know what, if Dr. Luke was working right now and Kesha happened, it would be a swift eraser of anything Dr. Luke has ever done. And Praying worked. It really did. And Kesha’s actions absolutely worked. But not after Dr. Luke had his run of the music industry and people in it. So, Kesha’s not the only person there. He’s got countless victims, unfortunately. And it took a long, long, long ass time to get him out of the industry. Because he had such influence. He held every major hit from the past, like 15 years, from 2016 back, that he probably owned a third of the popular music industry. That’s how powerful he was. And it took so long to take him down. But if that was going on today, it would barely take a week and he’d be gone. And that is Gen. Z’s actions, and people who are tech savvy and who do wish for better and push for it. Millennials, my own generation, my goodness, am I disappointed at how passive we are. But hey, it’s okay. We’ve got kids to take care of so.

Marissa: No, I agree. And, you know, I almost wish more people that Dr. Luke hurt would come forward, because they’re coming forward into a world that will coddle them. You know, I know that when Kesha was trying to get out of her Sony contract, Adele donated a huge chunk of money, and so did Taylor Swift, and a bunch of other female artists who worked under Dr. Luke. Kelly Clarkson even came out and spoke not against Dr. Luke but said that she’s aware of happenings and didn’t admit if anything happened to her or not, didn’t disclose anything. But it’s so telling just the support that she got, even though it was delayed. And I’m happy that Dr. Luke is out of the industry because of all the horrible things he did. But now it’s time for everyone to speak out. Which is happening and I’m so happy to be alive for it. I just I want to see everything move faster now.

Brian: I truly believe it will I’m not just here spitting out optimism for the sake of it. I truly believe that we’re getting there.  We’re getting there fast, too.  A lot of those big-wigs in the industry, the big heads there, that had the power and control over the entertainment industry for the past few decades, their tenure is almost up.  They’re getting out, and they’re getting out fast. Sometimes from the cutting of some disgraceful actions, and sometimes, just from age.  But there is going to be a new wave of new people coming in, and I only feel optimistic about that.

Marissa: Me too.  Is there anything else? Is there any other advice you want to give to survivors?

Brian: Yes. I mean, my advice for survivors is, don’t feel afraid to come forward.  Marissa had said that you’ll be walking into a world of support.  And those who don’t, they’re on the outs.  The people who still believe in the “heroes”, that is an old mentality, and that mentality is being shifted.  So, if you’re afraid of public opinion, I understand that.  But there’s less to be afraid of now with that, than there may have been years ago.

Marissa: And if coming out is something that you want to do, or speaking out about your abuse, breaking your silence is something that you want to do publicly, but you’re afraid of the backlash, find me on Twitter @MarissaFCohen, and tag me in it. And the second somebody says something nasty, me and thousands of other people are going to shame them.  And I am committed to that. That’s my favorite thing to do. To try and correct people who are victim blaming. That is also an option if that’s something that you want to do publicly but you’re afraid.

Brian: That is an incredible resource for people.

Marissa: So thank you so much for being here Brian. This was an awesome conversation that we’re probably going to split into several different podcasts. We covered a lot of topics.  Thank you again so much for all the information, and the work you’re doing for survivors.

Brian: Thanks for having me on.  This really was a blast.

If you enjoyed this podcast, you have to check out www.MarissaFayeCohen.com/Private-Coaching. Marissa would love to develop a made-for-you healing plan to heal from emotional abuse. She does all the work, and you just show up. Stop feeling stuck, alone, and hurt, and live a free, confident, and peaceful life.  Don’t forget to subscribe to the Healing From Emotional Abuse podcast, and follow us on Facebook at www.facebook.com/marissafcohen, and instagram @Marissa.Faye.Cohen. We’d love to see you there!

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