Healing From Emotional Abuse: Narcissistic Women in Relationships: With Francis Wade

Can you heal from abuse?  What do I do after leaving my narcissist? What does a healthy relationship look like? These concerns cross the minds of over 20 people every minute; over 28,800 people every day.  And the sad fact is, we still don’t talk about it enough.  Healing from Emotional Abuse isn’t a bandaid situation.  But it doesn’t have to take years either. Millions of other survivors around the worlds entire lives have been impacted by their narcissist.  Yours doesn’t have to.  To show you how to live a free, confident and peaceful life, your host and Founder of the Healing From Emotional Abuse Philosophy, Marissa F. Cohen.

Marissa: Welcome back to Healing From Emotional Abuse. I am so excited. June is one of my favorite months because I am a pride-freak. I love Pride Month. And so, every week, this month, starting this week, I’m going to bring on an amazing person from the LGBTQ community to help me co-host tell their story, talk about how we can help the LGBTQ community with the people and survivors and champions who are abused, get the help and reassurance that they need. Today, I am thrilled to bring on Francis Wade. She’s a musician and an educator. She has been a long-standing fighter for social justice and shedding light to anyone who she can help or represent when their voices aren’t being heard. She’s a friend to all and constantly acts as a progressive figure in education, the arts and more. Welcome, we’re so excited to have you here.

Francis: Thank you so much for having me.

Marissa: Of course. So, let’s get started a little bit, would you mind sharing your truth with us?

Francis: So really, it’s you know, nothing to extraordinary. Been an artist, my whole life, visual art, music, anything like that. And I would say that’s a huge portion of who I am. And I identify as bisexual. And that is really,

Marissa: Okay, that’s awesome. So, I’m a big art fan. And I’m super jealous of musicians, because I can’t play an instrument to save my life, although I try. So, thank you for being here. Would you tell us a little bit about what you went through?

Francis: Yes, so long story short, I did lose a parent, in my early 20s. And I always identified with that parent, you know, our personalities, things like that were very similar who we were. So, I was about 13, when I was in my first same-sex relationship. You know, it was something where I wasn’t really sure because I was young, I was in middle school. And, you know, it ended badly, of course. In high school, I just kind of like, didn’t really let that part of me live. So, when I was an adult, and I was going through all this stuff, basically, a very manipulative person, kind of got an inkling about who I was, what I was into. It was like, love bombs, like, I felt like I was seen for the first time, I felt like, I all of me was there. I felt like every piece of me was appreciated. And it got to the point where I was like, okay, maybe this could be a good relationship. I was actually on and off with this one male for about 10 years, you know, high school, middle school college, we ended kind of for good before that. So, when I got into the relationship, there was a lot of pressure where I was kind of still hidden, I didn’t really want to be all that open. And that’s really who I am in general. I’m a very private person. And I like to kind of keep things to myself. So, whenever we were out, or whenever, like, you know, my family came up, and I wanted to be private, or maybe I wasn’t ready to tell this person, they would turn to like, kind of like this game where it was like, “Oh, well, Are you embarrassed by me? You know, you aren’t embarrassed when blah, blah, blah.” And it was very new to me. And like I said, a parent passed. So, I was very vulnerable. And I was like, well, this person sees me, and they like me. And she’s constantly like showing me that. So, way before I was ready, I was basically told, you know, you have to tell your other parent. And I only knew this person closely for a couple weeks, really. So maybe about a month. So, I was kind of unsure where it was going. And I didn’t want to like jump through that hoop. Because to me, I was like, Well, I don’t really know where this is going. I don’t know if this is something, I’m even comfortable with. Because again, it’s a lot different when you’re like 13 kind of unsure. And then you go to being in your mid 20s. You know. So long story short, I told the parent, you would have thought I killed somebody. And I think a lot of people in the community can relate to that. You know, where a parent or even a family member who’s like a parent to them is disgusted. They act like you killed somebody. They just say “Oh, so you’re gay,” this and that. Like it’s one extreme or another. So first it was my family that seemed to turn against me. And, you know, I think they had an inkling that I could be queer. But what really sucks about it is that when it comes to a head and you’re open about it, you might not always get the support you need. So that was damaging, because I am very close to my family. And I was never like a problem child. If anything, I was probably the easiest one out of my siblings. So long story short, that definitely put a damper on everything. So, after that, I felt like there was this upper hand that always existed, where “are you embarrassed of me?” And I’d be like, No, you know, if you were out and I saw old friends, “how come you didn’t introduce me to them as your girlfriend.” I was like, Listen, like, you’ve been out a long time. I’m like, just getting used to it. And I felt like it was more about her than me. Like, my comfort came second.

So as time went by alcohol was a really big thing. I think no matter what kind of relationship you’re in, same sex or not, it’s a problem when one person or both drinks. So, our first like big fight, we were out. And I remember I was talking about something I did, as a musician, and I was proud of it. And art, you know, my visual art was also a part of this experience. And it was local. And right away, she was kind of talking down to me, acting like I was exaggerating. “Well, I don’t really think you would do something so big like that. And you know, and I wouldn’t have known about it,” and knew me like our age is, you know, there was a little gap. I’m trying not to be too specific, but the bottles kept emptying and it turned into, “Oh, well, you probably are lying, you’re not really a musician, because you’re also on the educater side, you’re not torturing.” Which I actually did tour around the world before, but whatever. So, the abuse turned more into like, I would question my worth, because any outstanding thing I did for myself, I always needed proof. But I always had to back myself up, I never could be the one in the relationship who, you know, had had accomplishments that outweighed what she was doing. And again, I don’t think it’s just in the community. So now moving towards the community being bisexual, especially when you’re a female, it always was like, “Oh, that’s disgusting. Like, you’ve had men inside you, you’ve kissed men, you’re going to leave me for a man, this and that.” And I think in the community, that’s something you do see a lot, being a woman who is bisexual. You’re kind of seen as this, like, not fully queer character in this line of their story, or whatever. And that really bothered me because it doesn’t mean that I need one or the other. It’s not like that. If I meet someone I’m into, I want to stay with them, no matter what. And I think that’s very common in those relationships, because she did identify as full-on lesbian. Never been with a male. That’s definitely something that seemed to be a problem very openly. And even if I saw like an ex or like a guy friend, “oh, who’s that?” you know, and it became very possessive to in some extent.

So, the real abuse started as summer and the weather started warming up, we would go out more. And alcohol was a huge problem, like I said before. So we would go out and she’d always invited me out with her friends. And one night, it was getting close to her birthday. She texted me and said, “Hey, I’m out at this place with these people. Can you come join us?” So, I go sure. So, I get there. And right away, we’re talking about like her birthday, things like that. She was saying in front of all her friends. Oh, no one’s doing anything for my birthday. She doesn’t want to do anything for my birthday. And I had plans, actually. And I was like, hey, like, it was a surprise, you know, right away, it turns into like, Oh, well, you didn’t tell me that. I was like, of course, that was a surprise. So then like, again, and even though I nicely intended for something to happen, it turned into this like, “Well, I didn’t know about it, so it’s not good.” So, we drove to another bar to meet her friends. And I was like, okay, maybe like, if we get out of this one, please, like, get some air, things would be better. So, she starts smoking in my car. I’m severely asthmatic. As you can probably hear my voice. I don’t do well when it’s humid or anything. So, I said, please don’t smoke in my car. And then she’s like putting it out on my seat, just like totally disrespecting me. And then she made a comment and goes, you know, you might try to act like the hero and like, you do these nice things for me in front of people. But I’m just saying if I wasn’t with you, no one would want to date you. You might be prettier than me. You might be more educated, and you might have a better career than me. Ultimately, no one, you’re just a pretty face and no one would put up with you like I do. And, you know, there was so much more that night that was said. So, when we got to the other restaurant, you know, when it’s kind of like this time of year, some nights it gets cold. So, it was a weird night, it dropped down to about, I’d say, like, low 40s. And it was kind of random. But anyhow, so when we got to the other bar, she was like, “Oh, you know, you should leave. No one wants you here, blah, blah, blah.” And this was after, you know, the car ride, getting very verbally abused and pushed down. So, I go, you know what, I’m going to leave, and she goes, then leave. So, I left. And then she texted me about an hour later. And this was something she loved doing. But I’ll get into that in a minute. She texted me goes, how could you leave and embarrass me like that? All my friends think you’re an asshole,” this and that. And it was like, I couldn’t win. Either, I had to submit to this abuse constantly and like play it off, like it didn’t upset me and sit through it, when like, I really cared about this person. Or, if I did do something to get myself out of it, I was, I was just as bad. You know, I was the bad guy. So, it was like a mind game. If I was with other friends, especially females, I would get accused of cheating. And at the time, I was living kind of far away for work weekends, you know, I would come back to this area and stay there. So Oh, you’re sleeping with your friends up there. And like this person’s gay. One of my friends actually was pregnant at the time. And she convinced her sister to message my friend and basically outed me to find out like if we had something going on, and my friend was like, Well, I didn’t know. Because again, like, she doesn’t need to tell me these personal things. And to like, why would you think she was doing something with me, like, I’m pregnant, and my friend actually didn’t want anyone to know she was pregnant. But in order to stick up for me, you know, she had to kind of out herself as well, before she was ready. And that’s really what a lot of it was. It was control. And when I said like, don’t you think it’s messed up that you convinced a sibling to like, pry and stuff. She couldn’t see it. So really, it was a lot of narcissism. It was a lot of emotional abuse and physical abuse, I grew up with brothers, they always were being on me. So, you know, when someone gets in my head and messes with me, personally, it’s a bit harder. And I think a lot of the reason why I stayed was because this was my first relationship with a same sex person. And I was scared that I was going to get exposed. I was scared that, you know, those restricted calls in the middle of the night, would turn into a Facebook status, because she was drunk and wanted all this build up. She wanted all this, like public attention to me and her. And that was something that scared me. And we were just fundamentally different people. And, you know, she was going through her own stuff at the time, I’m not going to deny that. But I feel like because it was really my first time with someone like that, it affected me differently. And another thing was, you know, with my friends being female, I feel like that always fell into the equation. I couldn’t have any female friends. I couldn’t have any male friends, because I was Bi. If there’s any questions you have, or want me to expand a little more, but that was just a somewhat, but not really brief overview of what I went through.

Marissa: How did this relationship impact future relationships for you?

Francis: So, what’s funny is I’m talking about how abusive it was, and things like that. It pushed me down. So, my relationships after that were very similar where I, you know, not to the same degree, it was a lot of myself wasn’t in it. I would drive an hour to me, my partner. I would not care if they hurt me. I would let them dump me and take me back when I knew I would just get left again. And it was kind of like a string of behavior that just wasn’t really, I guess a good way to say it is I just felt like, I didn’t know that I deserved better. I didn’t see value in myself. And it was a long-term effect, where last year and again, this is years later, I was in a relationship where I was being cheated on and I even that I was like, “No, it’s okay, you know, like we can get through it.” And now that I am in a healthy relationship, I look back and I’m just like, how did I not see my work? How did I not know that this wasn’t okay for me, how did I let a series of relationships happen where I was being, you know, they weren’t caring about me. I was being neglected. I was being ignored. I was being mistreated. And I think a lot of people don’t realize that you really do reach this point where you feel low. You feel like you’re undeserving of better things, and you kind of settle, is the way to put it.

Marissa: That’s a really good way to put it actually, I think a lot of people, it happens to so many people, we have this abuser who demeans us, and belittles us and convinces us that we’re worthless. And then we take that and run with it. It impacts every part of our lives, it impacts our confidence level, it impacts our self talk, and it impacts our choices. So that’s a really good point that you made. Thank you.

Francis: And a lot of it was physical to you know, she coerce me into acts I didn’t want to do. And it always was like, “Oh, are you not attracted to me? Because I’m not a guy?” And I was like, No. There were times where she would get physical. I remember, one time, I was tickling, or trying to cheer her up and just be light about something. And she actually put her knees on my legs and held my arms down and said, you know, you might be stronger than me and do sports and work out, but I could take you. And I was like, oh my God. We got in a fight one time. And I drove over, from an hour away at like, 4am to try to fix it and brought food and she just like, threw it. When you’re younger, you’re a lot less likely to stand up for yourself. And this was, again, my first relationship. So that sort so I mean, you know, it was like a control thing. And I think sometimes in these settings, you know, it’s not that you don’t know better. It’s just sometimes when you feel like you’re being seen for the first time, you’re afraid you’re going to lose that with your identity. And I also think  that had a huge factor in, in sticking by my toxic partner.

Marissa: So, you brought up a couple interesting points. But before I lose it out of my mind, I really liked how you just said, the fear of losing yourself is something that really held you to her. What do you mind expanding on that a little bit? Because I find that so interesting.

Francis: Yeah, sure. There was actually a meme floating around funny enough. And, you know, I didn’t really come out or mentioned that part of myself till I was in my mid 20s. I’m older now. But so, what happened was, when I kind of came out and started letting that little part of myself live, I felt like because she was my partner, because she knew that it was hard for me. And sometimes she was supportive. You know, that’s the thing with narcissists. Sometimes they’re everything you need, and more other times, It’s like Jekyll and Hyde, you know. So, I felt like those pieces of myself going back to that meme I saw where it’s like, you kind of have to select and present these parts of yourself that fit society and fits everyone around you. And you have to hide parts of yourself. So being seen for the first time, it was like, this thing that I felt like in the past, I had to hide this thing I felt like didn’t exist. You know, in college, I only did in males. I didn’t even tell people, you know, my closest friends didn’t even know because I just felt like, from when I was younger, the way my parents asked, oh, you must be gay because you can’t keep a boyfriend. It was it was like the first relationship or I didn’t have to think about that. And I was unforgivably myself. I was able to be who, you know, this half of me is without anyone saying anything in that relationship. Or when I was with males, you know, they kind of had a jist. It was like, oh, you’re going to leave me for a girl. And that’s something I find with bisexuality is sometimes, you know, whatever gender you’re with, will compare themselves to the other. So even though she would make rude comments and say things like, oh, you’re going to leave me for a man. There was also this other side of it, where it was like, Oh, well, I know, it must be hard, because you only dated men. Things like that. And I could talk about these things. And it was like the other side. You know, it wasn’t a man talking about what if you were a female type of thing? It was, yeah, I know, you’ve only been with men. But in this relationship, it’s a little more emotionally invested. It’s a little more mentally. You’re more locked in with sometimes with males, you know, might feel more physical. Or you might go to your female friends for those talks. So, it’s more  emotional, you know. Whatever points where it’s almost like you’re dating your best friend, but, you know, you’re both not straight. So, I would say, I felt very seen because of that, and parts of myself that I hid for, like 25-26 years were there. And that’s, that’s really what it was.

Marissa: I really appreciate that. I think that that’s so important, especially for somebody who grows up, not in like a very supportive household for the LGBTQ community. To have that support, where you’re seen and you’re heard and you’re acknowledged as you as 100% completely you but it still needs to be a healthy relationship.

Francis: One thing about me is, I was you know, my, my childhood could be rough at times, and I was always been having brothers. I was always pushed to be tough. I was always pushed to not cry because It wasn’t practical, it wasn’t rational to cry. Why are you whining? So, I think that for the first time, I felt vulnerable, and that it was okay to feel vulnerable. And unfortunately, sometimes, like you were saying. When, when you are allowing yourself to be seen when you are like, your true colors are there, it’s awful, because sometimes the wrong person will see that and jump all over it. And say like, Okay, I got it in this person’s vulnerable this, and, you know, going through what I went through earlier that year, or maybe it was a year before, I don’t remember, but um, it turned into one of those things where it was like a perfect opportunity for this narcissistic person, abusive person to really jump in and take control. Like, it’s like being a puppet. It felt that way.

Marissa: Right? I have a suspicion or a hunch, if you will, that abusers, they have like, these radar glasses, right? And they can see who’s emotionally vulnerable. And those are their targets. They like to target people that that yeah, that show that emotional vulnerability.

Francis: Yep, exactly. And it first it was like, Oh, that’s so beautiful. Like, you know, you’re this artist person. You’re so deep. And it was like a love and I always say the term “love bomb.” You know, they saw it, they see you for you, they make you feel like, the things that maybe they knew you were uncomfortable with in the past are now like this treasure they have. But then in the same breath, it’s like, oh my gosh, like you can be so dramatic, and you feel too much. And then you’re like, but that was the very thing I thought you liked. So, whenever we get in fights, and I will come over in the middle of the night or like, I would get those FaceTime messages, because, you know, she wanted to make sure no one was in the room with me. Oh, well turn your phone that way. Let me see. are they hiding behind the bed go over there? It was almost a feeling like it made me just free sometimes. If I was out with other friends, I would get these restricted calls in the middle of the night. And if I didn’t answer, I called you. Why didn’t you answer? And I’d be like, Well, I didn’t know it was you? Of course, it was me. How do you not know? And I’m like, because it was restricted. There are these expectations too, where it’s like, you don’t know what part of yourself to be. So, what’s so funny is at the same time, I’m saying how seen I felt this and that. But then it was like these mind tricks. They were so exhausting. When the relationship ended, it was about a year, little less maybe. I told some of my friends, I feel like I lost a year in my life. Because it was just so exhausting. And I was just tired.

Marissa: Thank you so much for sharing all that. I really appreciate it. So, I want to talk about your family a little bit. How does family support play a role in healing  from toxic relationships as an LGBTQ member?

Francis: You mean like from that relationship?

Marissa: And yeah, so yeah. So, you said that your family wasn’t very supportive of you. And that probably impacted, Or did it impact you healed? Or who you communicated to?

Francis: Yes. And I know you’re saying healed, but that’s kind of the funny thing. So, while I was going through all this trauma, your family member who you I would say, you know, if you’re lucky, a lot of people do use their family to heal them. And their family is who they go to when things are wrong. Where, because this relationship wasn’t really approved, I felt like I couldn’t talk about it. It was very awkward. It was very tense all the time. And, you know, maybe there was some sort of feeling that it was unhealthy. And it wasn’t talked about, I don’t know. Again, I was younger, by a lot of years. So, you know, it was like this grown person kind of was with me. And I knew that was concerning. But regardless, so whenever I was hurt, or I was sad, or I was scared that she was going to come to my house and like try to pick a fight with me, I couldn’t really go to anybody. So, it was really just you’re alone. You’re by yourself. And you’re not seen. You’re not represented by anyone who knows you super well inside and out. So, a lot of healing was self-healing. I could say that a lot of it was from friends. And for anyone who is in a situation like this, even if it’s not with a relationship, and feels alone there are even Facebook groups for these sorts of things. And I would say a lot of it came from outside sources. And I’ve made really amazing friends and allies along the way. And even strengthen some of my friendships who I talked to, for the first time about these things. Because, you know, when you’re with a narcissistic person, and they want to be seen by everybody, they want all your close friends to know about them. It turned into like my close friends saw what was happening. And when I told them, they kind of took me under their wing and the fact I could show them my vulnerable side and how hurt I was. I really felt like that actually strengthened some relationships and when the relationship ended, I talked to my family a little bit and I kind of felt like I was back and things were starting to feel normal. And then of course, at the time, my now ex was saying, oh, they’re just happy or not with a female, like, it has nothing to do with me. So, I would say as far as healing goes, reaching out to friends, things like that, really is what helped me. And it sucks, because you’ll look back and think, Well, my family wasn’t there. But sometimes you find your family along the way.

Marissa: I’m a true deep believer that your family isn’t always your blood, especially in situations with homophobes or people who are Anti-LGBTQ. And then they have a child who identifies as LGBTQ. Unfortunately, that’s not your real family. Your real family, to me is your Heart Family. It’s the people who, like you said, who have your back and who you can be vulnerable around, and who you can tell your stories to, and will support you no matter what.

Francis: It’s not so much even that my own family was anti-LGBTQ, but it was really more so that it was their child. And that’s another thing, you know, you can have a very progressive, very supportive parent, if you look at today’s world, Black Lives Matter, you know, it’s there’s a lot of attention to race and things like that. And luckily, that’s something we all agree on in my intermediate family is, there has been this treatment and all sorts of things. Whereas with the gay pride, my parents, they always had gay friends, transgender friends, drag queen friends, never really anything that was negative until I existed in my full self. I can definitely say to it’s, it’s different when it’s their own child, sometimes.

Marissa: That’s an interesting point. I’ve actually, never really, I guess, I don’t have children. But I’ve never noticed that or heard about that, that people who support the LGBTQ community can’t fathom or can’t support their child who identifies that so foreign to me.

Francis: Yeah, and that’s, that’s another thing too, sometimes, because it is complicated, you know. And some parents, they might go to therapy, they might be very open about figuring it out, and then some depending just on their makeup, they might not. And as time passed more of an open thing that, you know, I wouldn’t say it’s talked about a lot, it’s still kind of awkward, but I can say that it’s definitely gotten better. You know, if it comes up, it’s not tense, it’s not negative, it might not be positive. And that’s another thing too, I think is you got to give people who might not accept it credit, because at the end of the day, your family, most of the time loves you. And for anyone out there listening, I can say that it’s, it’s scary. You’re going to have to live with what happens like for me, I’m so horrified. But at the end of the day, especially now that I’m older, I can tell you, it’s going to be they want you happy. And it is an interesting angle, because you it’s hard to understand how someone can say they’re supportive and say they’re an ally, but then their own child or close family member, it does get complicated. And that’s what I can say, you know, you can’t say someone’s a bad person, because it’s, it’s hard for them to, but at the same time, you do have to be true to you.

Marissa: Absolutely. That’s such a good point. What do you think that the survivor and champion community, people who have been through this, what can we do to be more inclusive, educational and spread awareness to the LGBTQ community that this happens and that we’re here for you? How can we make it not as a generalized?

Francis: Yeah, well, you know, like, and even telling what happened I can definitely say there are generalizations a narcissist is a narcissist and an abuser, abuser. What I mean, but it’s, it really is not black and white. And I think to answer your question, a big part of it is definitely recognizing some of the challenges we face day to day we’re not seeing we’re often uncomfortable in our own skin, even if we are in a relationship that suits our attractions. And I think a lot of it is understanding the different facets that come along with that. Maybe it is your first time feeling seen. Maybe it’s your first relationship of that sort. And you’re going to ignore some red flags because you finally get a chance to feel yourself. And that’s a huge thing. And I think another thing is talking about it. As an artist, as an educator, I’m in a lot of situations where like, it could be about race, religion. It could be about different types of music, it can be about different art styles, and they’re things that I might not identify with, or really relate to. But what I’ve found is you have to be willing to educate yourself and understand you can comfortably talk about things without it always being negative. You know, it’s okay to be ignorant. It’s okay to ask questions. As long as you’re not making it malicious, and if you are, it’s important that the person answering the questions understands people won’t always know how to ask things. And sometimes we’re so quick to be negative and think someone has a negative streak to what they’re saying. A lot of people say, oh, who’s the guy / who’s the girl? And sometimes you just got to say, listen, liberals are both women. Or, oh, she’s dating a male now. So, she’s straight, right? Where you have to see people for who they are, you have to understand, like I said, there’s parts of you that will show when you’re in different kinds of relationships. So, I would say my advice would be to listen, put yourself in their shoes. If it’s uncomfortable, it’s not bad. Sometimes learning is very uncomfortable. You know what I mean? Think of like a butterfly in a cocoon. It’s dark, it’s probably cold in there, but they come out beautiful. The world is theirs. So, I always say like, when it comes to learning and trying to assist people, do more listening, ask questions, and don’t jump to conclusions. Right now, in the world, there are so many conversations that needed to happen that are happening now. There are so many people that are showing their support for each other. And I’m not lumping the two together, but I’m just going to say the way we can progress as a large group is by talking about uncomfortable things. And going there. And it’s awkward. It might be a lot. But in the end, you know, it’s kind of what they say, what side, do you want to be on of this? Do you want to be uninformed? Do you want to continue what’s comfortable? Or do you want to grow? And I think even for me talking about this, you know. I’ve been very to myself about a lot of things, especially the abuse I faced, you know, I know people had it, way worse than me. But I kind of compartmentalize it, because, you know, you hear these horror stories of women being beat, raped all sorts of awful things. And to me, it was more emotional and it would get physical at times. But I think even expressing like, why it hurts so much. We’ll teach people a lot. And everyone has a different story. So, I think even if you don’t feel like it’s worth sharing, just share it. Because people can relate to you. And I would say that’s the biggest thing is just have these conversations And listen.

Marissa: That’s one of the things that I really love to share is you never know who’s listening. So, like, share your story, talk about what happened to you, because you could be helping somebody without knowing, and that we grow in discomfort, I really appreciate that you brought that up.

Francis: It’s true, you know, and especially as an artist. You have to put yourself out there and sometimes there’s parts of yourself you’re so proud of and you want recognition for what you created, or what you presented to the world. And people you know, they don’t bat an eye at it. And other times when you’re not even trying your hardest, they see you and that’s all it can take is just like one little thing. For me even just being able to talk about it. If one person listens to this, and it’s like, oh, wow, she made a good point. Even if it’s something dumb, I said, that’s really what it’s about is just don’t be afraid to be there for people.

Marissa: Thank you so much for sharing all this amazing information. You’re so insightful and so inspiring. And I appreciate you being here. Thank you so much, Francis, your insight was incredible. And I’m sure you’re going to help a ton of people. Happy Pride and we’ll chat next week.

If you enjoyed this podcast, you have to check out www.MarissaFayeCohen.com/Private-Coaching. Marissa would love to develop a made-for-you healing plan to heal from emotional abuse. She does all the work, and you just show up. Stop feeling stuck, alone, and hurt, and live a free, confident, and peaceful life.  Don’t forget to subscribe to the Healing From Emotional Abuse podcast, and follow us on Facebook at www.facebook.com/marissafcohen, and instagram @Marissa.Faye.Cohen. We’d love to see you there!

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