Healing From Emotional Abuse: Married to a Narcissist: with BCP and Deborah McPhilemy

Healing From Emotional Abuse: Married to a Narcissist: with BCP and Deborah McPhilemy

Can you heal from abuse?  What do I do after leaving my narcissist? What does a healthy relationship look like? These concerns cross the minds of over 20 people every minute; over 28,800 people every day.  And the sad fact is, we still don’t talk about it enough.  Healing from Emotional Abuse isn’t a bandaid situation.  But it doesn’t have to take years either. The lives of millions of other survivors around the worlds have been impacted by their narcissist.  Yours doesn’t have to.  To show you how to live a free, confident and peaceful life, your host and Founder of the Healing From Emotional Abuse Philosophy, Marissa F. Cohen.

Marissa: Welcome to the Healing From Emotional Abuse – Bob Culture Podcast Connection, where we are going to talk about intimate partner violence and spousal abuse. Because it’s such an important topic, and we never really hear about it. People, you know, are nervous to come forward because of judgment and a lot of other things. So, we really wanted to hit this topic, and make sure people know that they’re not alone. And, of course, I need to introduce my phenomenal co-host, Rob from the Bob Culture Podcast. Welcome on, Rob.

Rob: Hey, Marissa, what’s up? It’s always a pleasure to team up with you and get some good work done, have some good conversations and hopefully make a lot of progress. Always an honor.

Marissa: So today, we have the beautiful, incredible Deborah McPhilemy. She’s an award-winning author, personal development trainer, and an empowering speaker. She’s the author of the Relationship Magnet: Emotional Intelligence in a Nutshell for Parents and Teachers. And the Bears of Blueberry Forest EQ series for kids. Deborah is passionate about helping people to get to know themselves, so they can be themselves. She believes that life is way too short to be anyone else than yourself. In her self empowerment club, the selfieschool.me, she helps people to find courage to develop their confidence, and to let go of the fear that holds them back from being themselves. When she’s not writing or teaching, she can be found spending time with her family, or traveling the world with her best friend and husband, Paul. Thank you so much for coming on today, Deb. I’m so excited to chat with you today.

Deborah: You’re very welcome. Thanks for having me. It’s amazing to be here.

Marissa: Well, thank you guys, both, for being here. I’m really honored that we get to do this panel-type discussion about spousal abuse and abuse, in general. Even though it’s not a great topic to chat about, it’s still very, very important. So, Deb, would you mind starting by telling us your story?

Deborah: Yeah, my telling my story these days feels like it really was a very different lifetime ago. But what happened with me is that I found myself in a cycle of abusive relationships. And I only really woke up to when it got to the fourth relationship. I will speak about three, but then remember that I forgot about the fourth one, because it was just something I blanked out of my mind. But I got married really, really young. I was 17 years old. I grew up in a very conservative home, a very religious home, and very naive. And the first time I had sex, I fell pregnant. And I didn’t want to shame the family. So, you know, we decided to get married. My husband wasn’t much older than me. He was 21 at the time. Decided to get married. And it was okay for about the first year. You know, it was first love. It was all excitements of things: new things, and new relationship, and baby, and all sorts of things. But for the first year of our marriage, we lived with my parents. And then when we moved out, my son was about a year old when the abuse started, we moved into our own apartment. And he’d been out drinking all day, watching cricket in the sun, and came back. And I was so shocked because it was just… It was so violent. And I think I must have said something to him that provoked the situation or that he didn’t like. But he just, honestly it was just crazy. He started throwing things and bashing things. And fortunately, at that stage, he didn’t actually hit me. But I got such a fright. And I immediately ran away, took the baby and went and stayed with my mom for a week. But then started thinking, “Oh, well, you know, maybe it was just because he was drunk. Maybe it was just that behaviour because of that.” And I went back to him, because I did love him. But then the abuse just started getting worse and worse and worse. And then it started becoming when he wasn’t drinking, or what happened when he wasn’t drinking, or it would happen first thing in the morning. You know, it was a case of anything which would spark him off; and I kept trying to find out if there was a trigger. Was it something I was doing wrong? Did I say something wrong? Do I not love him enough? Do I not? So, you know, I kept questioning myself because I kept thinking that it was something I was doing. I was the one that was provoking him or saying something that he didn’t like. And this carried on for about five years. But then I had another daughter, another child. I had a little girl, little baby girl. And she must have been about four months old, or something. And we got to a situation, again, where his favourite thing to do was he would bash my head against the wall. Would always grab my head in the front and then bash it.  And I got to the point where I’d had enough, because I’d left before and I came back. And I left before and I came back. And it was this whole cycle of leaving, coming back leaving, coming back. And, when, this particular day, I was in the kitchen, and he only came over two o’clock in the morning. When he’d made the date with me and said, “Well, you know, get ready or get somebody to look after the kids.” And he didn’t come home. And eventually came home at two o’clock in the morning. And I was like, “Why? What did I do to deserve this?” Or “Why did he do that? Why would you make plans with me and not come back?” But that was the start of me realizing that I’ve got to the point of having enough. And we were standing in the kitchen, and I said, “Why on earth would you ask me out and then not come and fetch me?” And I remember saying to him, “You son of a bitch.” And he was so angry that he said “Leave my mother out of this!” And he bashed my head against the wall. But I remember trying to make my way to the bedroom and just seeing stars, and all. I was, you know, about to faint. And it was black. And I layed on the bed and I was like, “Oh my God, my head is pounding. I’m in so much pain, but I don’t want to pass out because I’ve got two children in the house.” But what that did for me was, I was so angry that the next time I had to work, and I went to work, and I said, “That’s it. I’ve had enough. I’ve had enough of this man beating my head against.” I’ve had enough of the accusations and the pain, and all of that. And then I started making arrangements to leave. But because of me trying to leave before, he would always threaten me. The time before that, that I wanted to leave, he said to me, “If you ever try and leave again with the children, I will kill you and the children.” So, there was always that threat hanging over my head. So, this time I got a hold of my dad and I said to him, “I have to leave. I can’t do this anymore. I can’t take this anymore.” So, we packed up the house, and we left while he was at work. And my dad installed burglar bars and gates on the doors and everything. So, we left, you know. And then obviously he found that we left and he came knocking on the door, but I was quite safe in my dad’s home. So that was kind of the start. And then I waited, for about seven years, before I got married again, because I didn’t want to make another mistake. And within a week or two realized that “Oh my gosh.” I was in an abusive, but a very emotionally, mentally, emotionally abusive relationship. There wasn’t physical violence with him. But it was insane. The mind games, the financial abuse, the control. The “You can’t wear that. You can’t wear makeup. You can’t hug your children. You can’t hug your brothers.” It was, it was just horrific. And that one ended, as well. My mom was diagnosed with cancer and she was dying very rapidly. And I said to him, you know, “I want to go and spend the night at the hospice with my mom. My dad was exhausted.” And he said, “Well, if you leave me to go and take care of your mom, then it’s over.” And I said, “Well, then it’s over.” I said, “This is my mom, and she’s about to die.” So that was the second one and then I got out of that one. Once again, left with nothing. My children and I drove away in our car without bedding, without clothing. Drove away from that situation. And then the third time: so there was one in between that a guy that I was engaged to, we didn’t get married, got out of there. But then the third time, was when I really woke up to the pattern: that I was the common denominator. I just got married, again. And the reason that I kept getting married was because of my religious upbringing. You know, we were told, or brought up, that you don’t have sex before marriage; you can’t really have a good relationship unless you’re married to the person; that you, know, God won’t bless you unless you do it the proper way. So, there was just all that stuff going on, as well. So, I got married to this guy and he was annoyed because I wasn’t giving him attention. My daughter had her friends over, and I was hanging out with the teenagers. And I walked into the bedroom, and he just lost his rag. And he had me up on the throttle of my, you know, my throat against the wall. And as he did that, my daughter walked in, and I saw her face. And I went, “I cannot believe I’m back here again.” And so, the next day he went to work, and my daughter and her friends and I, we all packed the house like crazy. Our clothes and stuff, once again in the car, ran away to safety. And my son, by then, was out of the house and grown up. So we went and stayed with him until we could find a place with just my daughter and I could stay. But it was that moment that made me realize that I was the one that kept getting back into these relationships over and over and over again, and attracting this very type of person into my life. And, by then, I was already an emotional intelligence trainer. So, it’s not like I hadn’t learned all the stuff. But I just hadn’t discovered that my own trigger, my own lack of self worth, self esteem, and this belief I had about men and relationships was the reason that I kept inviting these people back into my life. So, I spent a whole weekend uncovering and debunking everything. Finding out why I believed the way I did. Where it came from. And it was only after I did that, that I broke the cycle. Got out of that relationship very quickly with an annulment, which is amazing. And then once again, you know, carried on with my life. And, I think it was 10 years after that situation, that I got married again. And I’m very, very happily married to the most wonderful, loving, compassionate, incredible human being that you could ever meet. So that’s my story in a nutshell.

Rob: You make me believe in love again. That’s amazing to hear. You’ve been through so much. And a couple of things here and there that you said that I could definitely relate to. I want to talk about, obviously, like you said that you’re in these relationships; you think there’s trust; you think they’re, you know, like your ride-or-dies, as we say here. You know, best friends, you can trust people. And then you kind of see these red flags: for instance, people not coming home or the constant lies. Can you tell us, I mean, obviously, you’ve experienced it in so many different ways. Can you tell us about some of the early red flags that people can kind of look out for?

Deborah: I’ve got a whole page of it in my book, Relationship Magnet, about saying to people, you know, if you’ve got these red flags, because that’s exactly it. You know, this thing about what we do when somebody pays us so much attention in a very short space of time. And they think you’re the best thing since sliced bread; they’re just amazing; they want to do everything for you; you’re incredible; they want to see you all the time; they want to do everything for you. They just put you on this massive, big pedestal. Now when you’ve got a low self esteem, you think this is amazing. “Oh my god, he thinks I’m so attractive. And I’m this and I’m that.” So, we kind of think that they besotted with us. But in my experience, in all these relationships, and all the research I did when I wrote the book, was that that is their way of getting you into their clutches very, very quickly. And making you fall for them fast and hard. So, when somebody makes such a big fuss of you, and then they want to move things too quickly in the relationship, that’s always a red flag. Because if somebody believes that you are worth it, and you’re worth waiting for, they’re not going to pressurize you into something; they’re not going to push you into it; they’re not going to put a time limit on it. So that is always the biggest red flag that I always say to people: that is the one that you need to pay the most attention to very quickly.

Rob: Absolutely. Go ahead, Marissa, I’m sorry. No, I’m just sitting here nodding my head. I was like, I wish I met you 10 years ago, Deb. But go ahead.

Marissa: No, I was just going to comment, because I think that is such a profound realization. To be very honest, a lot of people don’t see that. And I think that, you know, they integrate into our routines. And that’s how they get us. They learn everything they need to know about us. So they can systematically, you know, insert themselves into our lives, and make it as if we can’t have that routine or do anything in life without them. So, I think that was a really, really good point. Thank you for bringing that up.

Deborah: Yeah it is, you know, for them, it’s all about mind games, as well. Because, you know, I remember with some situations they would hide the keys. And then they’d say, you’d say, but I said this. No, you didn’t say that. And then they would play all these different games with you because it’s a way of eradicating your self esteem. Just backing up on what you just said Marissa, where they make you believe that you can’t do without them. And then things like. And then eventually all the things that they loved about you, they now can’t stand about you. And they’ll make you look like the bad one. I remember my second husband, when he would… God, I mean, he didn’t hit me. But the things he did. We were on our way; we worked together. And we were on our way to work one day in his van. And I was checking my messages on my cell phone, my mobile phone, and it was making like a clicking sound. And he said, “Can you not do that? Can you stop that?” And I said, “Well, I just quickly need to reply to this message.” The next thing, he pulled the car up, the van up, on the sidewalk, in the middle of a busy road; he opened the door; he leaned over me; opened the door, he lifted his legs, and he kicked me right out of the van onto the street. So absolute crazy things when we were in the car. He would start driving, if I didn’t adhere to what he wanted me to do, or he didn’t like something I said, he would drive like a maniac as if he was going to crash the car into something. And the more I would be “Please, can you slow down? I’m starting to feel scared.” Now, the more he would relish out of that experience, because he wants it to be in control. And then when he behaved like that, he would say to me, “If only you listened to me, Deborah. That would not have happened. If only you had done as I told you, that would not have happened.” And eventually your self esteem is so eroded, you lose so much confidence in yourself that you’re like, “Nobody’s going to want me now. Nobody’s going to love me. People are going to see how broken I am. Who’s going to want somebody who’s so broken?” So, it’s part of their unconscious plan. I don’t know if people do this consciously or not, because they are such broken people, but it’s part of the plan to make you into something so worthless that you’ll never want to leave them.

Rob: Absolutely. And you mentioned this a lot. And this is something I’ve learned from Marissa, a lot, is it’s hard to understand when these things unfold. Like you really don’t see them coming, you know. You trust somebody, you know. If something’s going to happen, you know, you think it would be communication or conversation or anything like that. But you mentioned the word control a lot. And this is what Marissa has helped me understand. Can you talk to us a little bit about why people are the way they are? Why they try to manipulate these situations and literally control you?

Deborah: So, it always comes from a place of them not being in control of their own life. So, if you look at human behavior, and you go back to their childhood, you’ll find that, because I did a whole section in my book about how people are made like that; how they’re created. Because it was very important for me to understand why people were like that. I mean, my whole thing is about human behavior. And so, for me, it was important, because also it was part of my journey of forgiving and not being angry and upset, and, you know, getting over the rage and all of that stuff. So, for me, I needed to know why they did it. So, basically, why people do it is that in their childhood, they get into situations where they have no control over their life. So, if you take a male versus a woman situation, like in mine, you’ll also find that the person that hurt them the most is the person that they feel the most vulnerable with. So generally, if you look at relationships with men, it’s often because they didn’t have a good relationship with their mom. Or they might have had a good relationship with their mother, but then mom also had the power to hurt them. So, when they were possibly vulnerable, or when they controlled them, and they had no control of the situation. So, children generally then once you regain that control over their lives, when they’ve been out of control. So that’s been what they grow up. So, when their wounds aren’t healed, they grow up that way. So, they have to exert their control over you, because that’s the only way that they feel that they can get some control back over their own lives. And some power back in their own life. So, you’ll find that most men who harm women are misogynists, and it’s because of the wounds that they have picked up from a strong woman in their life as a child. Now, the opposite happens obviously with any sex: so whether it’s male on male abuse, female on male. But it always comes to this stage. Or, should I say, it always comes from this area of lack within themselves. Where they don’t have; there’s a missing piece and they need to find it and they don’t know how to find it. And therefore, you know, when you exert power over somebody else, if that’s the only way you know, they feel like they’re somehow putting that missing link, gaping hole back into themselves. But it actually just makes it worse.

Rob: Wow. Deb, first of all, we usually save the promo for the end here. But where can we get this book? Because I’m picking it up.

Deborah: So, it’s called the Relationship Magnet. And it’s on sale through school.me. So, all my books and my programs and my courses are all on one platform, so you’d be able to get it there.

Rob: Got it.

Marissa: I’ll post the link in the description for anybody else that wants it. I know I will also be picking up a copy of it. So, Deb, what did you do to help you heal from all of this? Because, I mean, the emotional wounds and the confidence blows, those are all things that stick. You know, I’m a big proponent that the physical abuse is awful. But the scars go away. The emotional abuse is what really sticks with you. So, what did you do to overcome all of that?

Deborah: Gosh, so much. It’s really, it’s taken me a long, long time, even to the point that when Paul and I got married again, there was still stuff left over then that I had to deal with. But I can honestly say today that I’m completely and utterly whole. But when I started the very first thing I did was I joined the counseling group. And it was for divorced people, divorce care. And that’s what actually led me to becoming a counselor. Because I waited seven years after my first marriage before, or after it ended, before I thought I needed to find some help. And I could see the repercussions in my children’s lives. And, you know, my son had a lot of problems sleeping and fear and lack of confidence himself. And even though my daughter was really young, when I left. You could see, because there was still fighting going on even after the divorce for maintenance and support. And the control. Just him trying to control me and us in our lives still carried on for a very long time after the divorce. It was almost 18 years. So, there were a lot of things I had to do. I went for counseling. I’ve had hypnotherapy. I’ve used Emotional Freedom Technique. I’ve used the havening. I even, and I know this sounds really, really crazy, but, a couple of years ago in 2016, I still felt that I had a lot of fear. Because when I wrote my book, and I was very bold, I was the first person to talk out about it in South Africa. I was on TV. I was on the radio. I was just blasted everywhere in the press. And at the time, I thought well, this is amazing, because now other people are going to hear about this and don’t have to be in their situation. And they can learn from what  I went through to prevent that. And there was a huge response from women who emailed me and said, “You know what? Because of you and speaking out, it’s given me permission to leave my situation.” But what happened was, my first husband got married again. And he got married to a very controlling, strong woman. And she realized that she had made a mistake. So, in order for her to look better and not look silly, because she married an abuser. She then took on the role. She carried on the abuse of the way he had left off. So, there was this incredible backlash and bullying. And she would pretend to be somebody else and make comments on my books. And it was just a nightmare. And what happened was, when I moved to England, it was just an ongoing thing. So, my husband, Paul, my husband, he was the one that actually stepped in. And it was the first time that, besides my brothers, that there was another man that said, “You know what? Enough is enough. Somebody needs to help you with the situation.” And he basically reached out to them. And he said to them, “I’ve got the money. I’ve got the resources. I’ve got the full force of the law. If you do not stop bullying my wife, I will bring all of this stuff against you. The force of the law.” But, basically, what I’m saying is, it was the first time that I felt like somebody had my back. And because somebody had my back, I felt like I was enabled to really heal from all of this stuff. But interestingly enough, I still felt very vulnerable. I couldn’t put myself out there. I cleaned up everything on Google, every single radio station, TV station, websites. I cleaned it up completely. I changed to my new married surname. I made it as if I did not exist. It took me a year to get Google to remove every single thing that had been mentioned about me. And then for a couple of years, I just licked my wounds. And I was like, “I don’t want to put myself out there. I’m too scared. I’m too scared of the backlash.” Because, also what happened when I was on radio in South Africa, a lot of people would phone in. A lot of them would be good. But then a lot of men would phone in and go, “I can see why your husband beat you. Because you’ve got no social skills.” So, you’re always going to get these haters, right, that say these awful things. When I was in England, I licked my wounds for a few years. And then I just said, “You know what? I can’t live my life in hiding, because I know what my purpose is. My purpose is, as a speaker, as a person who writes books and a person who teaches others. I have to take back control of my life. I’ve got to take the power back of my life. I can’t just hide.” Because it made me feel depressed. Because I wasn’t being myself. So, I kind of started a process of doing all that. As I said, the hypnotherapy. I’ve done Emotional Freedom Technique. I saw various counselors and therapists. I can’t even remember all of them. But the biggest one for me was in 2016, I wanted to do something epic, just to get rid of the fear that I still had. And a friend of mine said to me, “Why don’t you do fire walking?” And I was like, “What? Why would I want to do fire walking? Are you crazy?” But she kept on at me. And she kept saying, “I really feel you need to do this.” And I was like, “Okay, well, I’ll do a little bit of research.” And I found this company that’s about four hours drive away from me. And the minute I saw what they wrote, and I saw the video, something resonated with me. I saw the video and I just started crying. And I thought, “This is it. I have to do this.” And I went and spent a weekend, and it was actually a firewalking instructor training course. And Steve, who runs it, was the same guy, well, he studied with the same guy Tyler(?) that Tony Robbins studied with. And we did, I think it was in the second day, we did a trust fall where you stand on a platform that’s four meters high. So, of course, you’re five foot or six foot on top of it. That seems really, really high. So, you’ve got to fall backwards into these people’s arms that catch you. And that is where my true healing started from. Because that is what helped me to realize that I could trust people again. I could trust men again. I could trust myself. And since then, I’ve gone back every year. I’m now a fire walking instructor trainer. But it was all about breaking all those things that have been said over my life. Rebuilding my self esteem. Comparing myself to other people and going, “Well, actually, that person is amazing. But I have the same quality. So, I should be pretty amazing, too.” So, it really has been a very long process, a very long journey. It’s taken a lot of modalities. But I can honestly and truly say to you that, as I sit here before my laptop, that I’m completely and totally and utterly whole. And it was done through a lot of different ways. There wasn’t just one way for me to do it.

Rob: Wow, that’s, incredible. I’m writing down all this stuff. You’re my new favorite person. But I did want to ask you this, like a lot of things that you said resonated with me. You know, obviously, when something terrible does happen, you know, someone that you think you can trust, obviously that trust goes away. You know, people lose that trust, that merit. You tend to lose your faith in people, in general. So, when you use that metaphor about the trust fall, like I’ve literally said, you know what? I’ve fallen on hard times, or I got, you know, blindsided by things in life. My friends, my support system, were literally there to catch me and pick me back up, like I’m living it. And for you to use that trust fall example was just, like, it really resonated with me. It’s perfect. And when you started the interview, you said, it feels like a lifetime ago. And you know, some of this stuff you’ve kind of blanked out, can you tell us a little bit more about where you are right now and feeling whole? It gives me a lot of hope.

Deborah: Well, the one thing I discovered because, you know, when you start looking at why you’ve been abused, it’s because of something that happened in your childhood. So, when I traced it all back. I’ve been bullied as a child at the age of nine, it started. But also my older brother, he hated me, but not intentionally. But when he was a little boy, you know, you had all the attention and the love. And then the girl came along and he felt that I stole the attention away from him. And him and I spoke about it the one day. I mean, now he is my absolute best friend. But as a kid growing up, he tried to kill me a couple of times. You know, strangled me, tried to stab me with the scissors. It was just crazy. So, it’s almost like when something happens to you, when your essence is damaged at a really young age and you’re not healed, or you haven’t healed from that trauma, it then carries on and on and on and on. But I even discovered, in my journey, that it was further than that. It was quite a horrific situation because I had suppressed a lot of things. Because you do. You suppress it; you don’t know what’s going on. And I think your mind only allows you to remember things when you’re ready to deal with it. And about four years ago, I think it was just before I did the firewalking thing, I was driving along the road one day, and I’ve always been very, very scared of pedophiles, and people doing that to my grandchildren. And I was very scared of that being done to my kids. I always used to overreact. And I was driving on the road, and I saw a man and his son. And once again, I got the sick feeling in my stomach. It was about a two, three-year-old. Sick feeling in my stomach. And I say to myself, “Why? Why do you have this reaction?” And then suddenly, I asked myself. I said, “What happened to you?” And as I said that all these memories came flooding up of me being molested as a three-year-old by a very close family member. And so, the whole pattern of my life had been one of abuse from the age of three. And as I said, when you carry that with you, and haven’t healed from that trauma, that’s why it’s taken me such a long time. Because I’ve had to go back and face that, and face it head on and say. Fortunately, the person who did it is not dead. But that was the hardest thing for me because it was a grandparent. And I had to acknowledge and accept that this person who supposedly loved me had done that to me as a little three-year-old. So, now looking back at that, I can honestly say that, you know you are whole when you get to the point where you can think about them, and there’s no emotional trigger. There’s no button. There’s no reaction. Because I can now look at his face in a photo and feel nothing. Because I realized that, obviously, you’ve been a very damaged person, and something must have happened to him. I have forgiven him. And I think that’s always the hardest to do, when you are healing from abuse, is to forgive your perpetrator. But I think what makes it easier is when you look at them as an outsider, not what they did to you, but what must have happened to them. To perpetrate. What they did to you. And I think that is what helped me. So, yeah, I have completely forgiven. I don’t feel any emotion anymore, whatsoever, when I think of anything that happens to me. But what is always good to remember, as well, that when you’re looking back, and you dealing with your trauma, and you’re dealing with everything that’s happened, is that whenever you think about an event and you still feel something, then there’s still work to be done. Because you know you’re completely healed when you can talk about your story without emotion. And you can look at your story as if it was somebody else’s movie. It’s not even you. That this is a movie or somebody else’s life. And so that is my advice to you. Is that, you know, when you embark on this journey, it isn’t easy. You’ve got to do the things that are going to make you feel safe, that are going to make you feel whole. The other thing that I did, and this is what I’m going to say to everybody listening, for God’s sake, go and do a self-defense course. Because that was one of the first things I did, was I did a rape prevention self-defense course. Because it makes you feel empowered. It’s the first step in getting your confidence back. It just makes you feel better, move better, walk better. Because you’re walking like a confident person. You don’t look like a victim because you know, people can see us coming from a mile off when you’re broken. And when you’ve had abuse in your life before, or you have this invisible magnet inside you that attracts people to you, they can see it. So, if you’ve just come out of that situation, go and do a self-defense course so that you can work on your body language; and you can work on your body confidence; and you can feel stronger and more empowered in yourself. And then start your emotional journey. And I also just want to say this, is that a lot of people are very scared of their emotions. Your emotions are here to help you to have a better life. All those emotions are going to, you know, they’re just like little warning signs that say to you, “You need to pay attention to this because I really want you to have an amazing life. And you’re not going to have that amazing life until you take care of this pain.” And that’s all emotions are: your emotions can’t kill you. They’re just there to help you to become the person you’re meant to be. And to help you to have the life you so badly want. And dream of.

Rob: Wow. Very, very well said. That’s it for me. You hit everything on the head. A lot of the stuff you said resonated with me. Marissa, you got anything else before we get out of here?

Marissa: To be honest, no. Deb, I think that you are so inspirational. You said things that resonated with me, you know. And I felt like I was so far healed and so good, and then you say things. I’m just like, “Oh my god.” It made me think. So that’s why I was so quiet. I was thinking and ruminating on some of the beautiful things you said. So, thank you so much for sharing all of your insight and your story and everything with us. I think that you’re an incredible person and you’re so, so strong.

Deborah: You’re welcome. Thank you. And yeah, I always invite people that just reach out. You know, I also think sometimes we just need to reach out more and not be ashamed of what has happened to you. Because what has happened to you is just something that happened to you. That’s not who you are. And so, it’s important to reach out and ask for help. Because it’s not your fault. Somebody else’s bad behavior is not your fault. And it’s not because of you. So, you can turn this around, you know. We’ve all got the power within us to turn it around, and have the lives that we want, and the relationships that we want. And to find love again, like I did.

Rob: That’s awesome. I always do like little soundbites and write down little quotes from this. I have at least 15 from you. So, I love everything that you’re saying, Deb. Thank you so much. And before we get out of here, we are about the shameless promo. Tell everyone where they can get your book again. Tell everyone where they can follow you on social media. All that good stuff.

Deborah: So social media: If you just put in my name, Deborah McPhilemy, which is spelled ‘McPhilemy.’ And then my Selfie School is, as I said, it’s selfieschool, but it’s .me. It’s the School of self, and it helps people to get back to themselves, to love themselves, to return to self. So just put my name in social media and I’ll come up somewhere. And you can connect with me in my free group. You can ask questions, are always welcome. I always welcome people to contact me and ask for help.

Rob: Wow. Thank you so much, Deb. You are truly an inspiration. Thank you again for coming on, for a few minutes of your time, for opening up. I know it’s resonated with Marissa and myself. I’m sure that a lot of people listening really took a lot for that. So, thank you so much for your time and continued success moving forward.

Deborah: You’re very welcome and thanks for doing this guys. It’s really needed.

Rob: Absolutely. This was an honor. We’ll have to do it again sometime. And always, guys, as I always say here: Stay safe. Stay positive. Take care of each other. We’re out. Peace.

If you enjoyed this podcast, you have to check out www.MarissaFayeCohen.com/Private-Coaching. Marissa would love to develop a made-for-you healing plan to heal from emotional abuse. She does all the work, and you just show up. Stop feeling stuck, alone, and hurt, and live a free, confident, and peaceful life.  Don’t forget to subscribe to the Healing From Emotional Abuse podcast, and follow us on Facebook at www.facebook.com/marissafcohen, and instagram @Marissa.Faye.Cohen. We’d love to see you there!

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